The Wine Conversation - Latest Comments

Re: Naked Wines’ Latest Marketing Campaign a bit See-Through? | Wine Conversation

Dids — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 05:43:05 -0000

Robert,

I completely agree if you, it is a crass attempt to brain wash their customers and potential customers into what is the right product to buy and low and behold, these are the products we sell. But people can't be bothered to "understand" properly about wine like us geeks. Like Leon who religiously (and selfishly) goes out and tastes the wines he sells and creates more than a business relationship with the wine maker, so that he can impart this information to me the customer.

I had a local blogger recently talk to me about Naked through Twitter. He loved the concept they were "selling" to him, thought that he was helping these poor impoverished wine makers. When I presented the alternatives and the fact that this was essentially a spin and that he should patronise independent wine merchants who sell the wine at the same price as he as an Angel would be buying it at, and by asking questions of the merchant of his needs he would get a first class service. His reaction was discomfort, silence. People like to be hand held in these decisions, like to feel rewarded for their action of purchasing wine.

Naked wines are pandering to the emerging fact that people are beginning to see the purchase of a bottle of wine as an emotional decision, and they are pandering to those emotions.

Re: Naked Wines’ Latest Marketing Campaign a bit See-Through? | Wine Conversation

Leon Stolarski — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:07:47 -0000

Yes, of course, silly me - a choir.

Re: Naked Wines’ Latest Marketing Campaign a bit See-Through? | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:04:01 -0000

choir?

hard to picture little ol' me vs a whole choir of angry angels trying to drag me over hot coals, but I shall meditate on the image

Re: Naked Wines’ Latest Marketing Campaign a bit See-Through? | Wine Conversation

Leon Stolarski — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:36:15 -0000

Oh dear. You have sinned! Prepare to have your arse dragged over the coals by a (insert word for whatever the collective noun is for a bunch) of "Angels". ;-)

Re: The Return on Investment of Wine Education

thirstforwine — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 08:57:10 -0000

This specific issue was the subject of discussion with a lovely lady I met on Saturday at Tapas Fantasticas who was part-way into her WSET Level 2 and who said to me she was "stressed" and "making more mistakes", so thought I'd dust this off.

What are we doing if we are making people enjoy wine less as they learn more?

Re: Miracle of turning water into wine too good to be true? | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 19:30:10 -0000

quite!

Re: Miracle of turning water into wine too good to be true? | Wine Conversation

Per-BKWine — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:12:47 -0000

It seems to me to be a failed attention grabber since in very little of the buzz the water issue came through. In fact, I think very few of those that saw it ever had any clue about what they were really trying to promote. What's the point of a stunt, or a viral video of no one gets the message?

Re: Love(content) = money | Wine Conversation

awaldstein — Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:01:01 -0000

Ahh....now I understand.

I just look at it differently.

I don't think there will be massive aggregation. I don't think there will be places for communities to a point.

There is actually little problem finding information cross network if you work hard enough building the basis of it. This is true for wineries especially.

Huge amount of investment is going into cross network groups, flash communities, that don't aggregate, simply collect and connect over need at certain times.

My bet is that's where the its heading.

Good discussion.

Re: Love(content) = money | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Sat, 08 Mar 2014 16:15:44 -0000

I didn't mean that PP is a vertical platform, but that it aggregates content from multiple "creators", unlike most blogs. It brings creators and audience together. Despite this, I was pointing out that it failed to help monetise that aggregation in a way that Patreon (a really cool model) does for artists.

I am not necessarily advocating for more WINE platforms, but I am calling for more collaboration and aggregation because much as we CAN place content wherever we want, we need to establish a stronger tie with individuals as our community/audience - in the same way a band like Pomplamoose creates a fan-base. If you are all over the place, there's never a critical mass. That's what's so cool about Patreon.

The first duty, however, is for those of us who create that content, to think a little more carefully about who we are creating it for, and how we engage with them in order to create a "fan base"

Re: Love(content) = money | Wine Conversation

awaldstein — Sat, 08 Mar 2014 14:10:44 -0000

Hi Robert

Didn't know this guy and am a bit of a crowdsourcing geek, so I thank you.

I puzzled though how Palate Press is a vertical platform for wine. Feels like an online pub built on a media model.

Can you explain?

Also curious where you are going with the need for more wine platforms? There is a seriously large group of interlocking communities out here as you know. And in its own messy way it is pretty simple to connect cross platform for most every purpose and this certainly includes wineries from my vantage point.

Re: Making a wine jelly | Wine Conversation

Andrew Kennedy — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:12:57 -0000

Nice post.

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Wed, 15 Jan 2014 05:32:26 -0000

THANK YOU!

We very much appreciate the many ideas and feedback we got via this post. We've now got a bit to think about in terms of "wine in context" and what that could mean to all of us as wine communicators.

Unfortunately I feel like I didn't express the question I had in my mind well enough, and there is much more we could explore around this theme, so rather than close this discussion I would like to extend it. I'm going to go away to re-phrase it and use some of your ideas as a starting point.

In the interim, lookout for the impending launch of the dwcc.co site in the next few days.

Thanks all for a great discussion

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

Carla Maset — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 05:39:22 -0000

There's so much literature on wine, that maybe it could not seem an innovative solution to use this channel, but my idea to put wine in context is to make a reading or better more than one, choosing the best pages describing the wines.
But this reading will be only the final phase of a real contest: PUT YOUR WINE IN (CON)TEXT would be the title of this contest asking to the participants to propose the pages they remember to have read and that more have struck them on the theme of the wine in ample sense (tasting, territory, people). I would not limit the context to English authors, but obviously in case of other languages the participant should send also the translation in English to favor the jury.
Too complicated? Maybe a bit, but think it over: there’s a lot of people that love to read but not to drink and paradoxically they could have something to tell also to the winelovers…

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

Doris — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 05:48:35 -0000

One more thing regarding putting in wine in context with music:http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

Doris — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 05:47:10 -0000

It's a pleasure for me to joins this discussion and I would like to add my idea and opinion of "putting wine in context". As I took part at the DWCC in Spain, I experienced a lot and ... it brought some nice ideas to my mind. I noticed, that in Logrono the hotels offered wine tours for tourists and that inspired me.... Before I tell you my idea, I have to mention, that I compared my point of view regarding wine tourism in Spain to Austria, because in Austria we just realised, that we can make wine tourism!!! It's just at the beginning. So.... I was surprised that people in Logrono can easily book wine tours in hotels. In Austria it's not like that, although e.g. Vienna is the capital of Austria and also in the middle of all wine-growing regions. So my idea: I could get self-employed and start to make my own wine tours with tourists. But only individual tours.... You can pay moer attention to the interests and preferences of the people who are interested in wine. moreover, personal experiences always awake assosciations to products.. Finally, the target is to make the people buy the region's wine also in their home country. So taking a car, picking up the guests at the hotel, make a tour through the vineyards, telling them nice stories, attending a cave and offering a spectacular wine tasting.... That's how we make them loving wine!!!!

There is one more thing, that I would like to mention. It's more a personal thing.. My familly is not a passionate wine drinker like I am, but since I have integrated them and showed them how complex and interesting wine is, they started to understand wine. So, we all can people make excited about wine. For example, at New Year's Eve I opened two bottles of Sauvignon Blanc and I told my family: "Isn't it intersting? We have had "the same wine" but both of them is somehow different!" My sister was astonished! There are just small things, that consumers make more thinking of wine and what they have in their glass! So keep on going and make all people excited about drinking wine!!!!!!! That's what I really like in this business!!!!

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

Michel Smith — Tue, 24 Dec 2013 11:59:08 -0000

Wine in box or out of a box… Nothing to do with the old "bag in box", and yet… Pardon me for my French, but after all, despite my name, that's my language. So let's have it.
Je sais, ce que je vais proposer existe déjà avec de petits vins ou des vins de cépages, mais ça ne va pas plus loin, ça ne bouge pas.
Or, je me suis toujours demandé l'effet que cela ferait de boire un grand vin, je veux dire un vin réputé et cher, style l'Angélus ou Latour, ou même un vin connu d'Italie, d'Espagne, du Val de Loire ou du Sud de la France, disons pur résumer un vin à partir de 20 € la bouteille, donc de boire un grand qui sortirait d'une boîte, d'un Tetra Pack, par exemple. Comme le lait ou le jus d'orange. Je trouve qu'une telle perspective ouvre des portes sur l'inconnu. Il y a des certitudes : la boîte doublée d'aluminium protège le vin de la lumière et des variations de température. La boîte règle le problème du bouchon. La boîte peut être rangée au réfrigérateur ou stockée debout… plus besoin de coucher le vin…
On va me rétorquer que cela manque de poésie, de tradition. Mais la boîte pourrait donner un nouvel impact, apporter une créativité, relancer l'intérêt pour le vin. Un vigneron pourrait demander à un artiste de décorer la boîte, on pourrait écrire plusieurs lignes dessus, suggérer des mariages mets et vins, raconter des histoires, mettre des bandes dessinées, de belles photos, donner des recettes pour aller avec le vin, créer de nouveaux formats…
Disons que la Mise en Boîtes au Château ouvre bien des perspectives, non ? So what do you think ?

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

Daniela Vilu — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:54:56 -0000

Hi all. I was wondering about trying to get more people aware of the small independent wine producers all across the world who are trying to make a living by making really good wine, but who have very few customers. It may be a good way to combine the tradition of wine making and how it's done in different parts of the world and the technology at hand. We can use technology to find more about independent wine producers and get to know their wine background. Thoughts?

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

Tom Parnell — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:39:41 -0000

This is all interesting, Robert. I think, though, that the difference with something like gardening (or, for that matter, fashion) is that many 'customers' (or audience members) feel creatively engaged with the hobby in question.

Most wine-drinkers' engagement with wine is a lot more passive than gardeners' engagement with gardening, or even many shoppers' engagement with fashion (being strongly connected with the creation of an identity). Therefore most wine commentary/journalism ends up feeling a lot more one-sided than gardening or fashion.

And (with no disrespect whatsoever to this endeavour) most attempts I've witnessed to put wine in context end up feeling very contrived, and of little relevance to most readers. Which may just mean I haven't yet seen it done well enough.

I know your thoughts on glorification of drunkenness (cf your Giles Coren comments elsewhere), but in one sense an amusing discussion of the experience of intoxication is one of the few engaging ways in which to broaden one's audience when writing about wine. I'm not saying that makes it right, by the way. But it gets published in (horrible) magazines like Esquire because people relate to that experience — whereas they don't relate to tasting notes &c.

I wonder at times whether there's a way to harness the Coren approach (to a degree, Rob, to a degree…) in a way that acknowledges the experience of drunkenness — which is, in my view, neither good nor bad, necessarily — without either glamourising or condemning it.

I am waffling without any clear direction, obviously. And I haven't even had a drink yet.

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

WendyCW — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:39:16 -0000

I've been involved in or attended some very interesting tastings in the last year or two. Pairing wine with the interests of a particular group be it wine and art, wine and music, wine and film, the laws of wine for lawyers, wine and finance, etc..Using a hook ties in what people are familiar with helps them better grasp the subject of wine and make it less intimidating.
Also pairing wine with everyday foods you typically wouldn't think of being part of a wine experience is a great concept. My most popular post of all is what to pair with fried chicken. Who would have thought thousands of people are searching for this information? Favorite snack food pairings are also popular. Think buttered popcorn and Champagne for movie night or German Riesling with hot dogs on game day. Adding the right wine to an everyday experience can turn it from ordinary to extraordinary.
.

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

LOUISE HURREN — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:43:39 -0000

I'm not really a Napa authority but from my limited experience, when I cast my mind back to visits to wineries in California and South Africa, I've been struck by how very inclusive the experience has been, thanks to an awareness of what the average consumer (ie. non-wine buff) is comfortable with, or really wants to see. The example that spring to mind right now is the tasting room at Graham Beck Wines in Franschhoek, where our (very mixed) group was invited to sniff our way along a long line of glasses filled with chunks of pineapple, sticks of cinnamon, squares of chocolate and the like. People LOVED it, laughed, commented, shared their favourites, it was the most perfect icebreaker and a great prelude to moving into the tasting room for the more serious stuff. There was also (if memory serves) a wine bar-like tasting area that felt more like a bar (welcoming, non-intimidating) than a tasting room. The whole experience was geared to how people might taste wine IN REAL LIFE (e.g. in a bar setting, or in their kitchen with a variety of foods on hand to provide clues, cues and balance). It was memorable, and spot on.

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:42:53 -0000

Here's one link about the campaign:

http://www.marketingmagazin...

I can't find a list of what was included, but maybe you can source one - or I can ask Laithwaites.

They've continued this with another show:
http://www.classicfm.com/ra...

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:37:05 -0000

Here's another example I've often thought about:

In the UK there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of committed gardeners. They regularly buy plants, know the details of what plants goes in what soil, what conditions they need to grow, including natural and supplements. There is even a regular Gardener's World programme on BBC radio - with Q&A with experts.

However, if you ask many of them about wine, they'll probably tell you they don't know anything about it and it is too complicated. Surely not, it just hasn't been presented in a relevant way.

Is gardening really that much more interesting than wine? If gardening can do it, SURELY wine can.

Most interestingly, these gardeners regularly visit garden centres to buy materials and meet experts. What if we could translate the kind of knowledge these gardeners have into interest in wine? Present wines in the context of the unique personalities of plants ...

If well done, a new kind of retailer could be created that combined these worlds and sold wine alongside the garden materials and reached a HUGE, mature audience.

Just an example

Any bloggers with gardening knowledge who could comment?

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

awaldstein — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:34:38 -0000

Newness for newness sake is never an aspiration in my impression.

Clubs do indeed work as opted in, branded and very economic solutions. Almost $2B in DTC and clubs in the US this year.

And the first retail club success (4 out of Chambers Street alone) are starting to happen. And the first (not public yet) of writers and bloggers teaming with retail for clubs is in the works.

There is no alternative, context driven, wine endeavor that in my opinion is working now, anywhere. Love to be shown.

I have opinions on this and while I applaud the direction this is going and am considering attending EWBC this coming year to participate, not really clear what the intent is. Feels like a attempt to create programs and campaigns (which is fine) more then discover market penetration strategies. I may be misunderstanding.

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

LOUISE HURREN — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:31:24 -0000

I'd love to know more about the Laithwaites/Classic FM programmes, specifically what music/wines/countries were cited. Any idea where I could find that info?

Re: Putting Wine in Context | Wine Conversation

thirstforwine — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:20:19 -0000

I had not heard about Club W before to be honest - there's so much happening in the US that isn't available to us that it is hard to keep up.

Looks good, but as you say, looks expensive.

Even so, this is still just a classical wine sales model with slightly different language, it isn't actually a new context. They are still pushing bottles using tasting notes and slurping from swirling glasses.